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ancient of days, christian symposium on aliens “unholy communion, the spiritual nature of abduction reports” by joe jordan presented at the first christian symposium on aliens. filmed live, on location in roswell, new mexico. ⩠2009 christian symposium on aliens. copyright owners: guy and nicole malone and joe jordan. “squared productions videography”: dan and stephanie jordan all rights reserved. this video may not be copied or uploaded to the internet without written permission of the named presenter. presentations are owned and copyrighted by named speaker, contributor or moderator. guy malone: welcome back and good morningagain, thanks for supporting the first christian symposium on aliens here in roswell, new mexico.

our next speaker, our first speaker, for saturdayjuly 4th, is joe jordan. we’ve been affiliated for 10 years together, along with chris ward.he’s been a huge help in my ministry and a good friend in my personal life. and he’sgot a talk that is really paradigm shifting; it really changes people’s perspective tounderstand the spiritual perspective of this ufo or abduction phenomena. he’s a verygood man, and i’m so glad to have him back here again. thank you for all of your supportover the years. and lord jesus, father god, we love you, wethank you. we ask you to be with joe, and bless him and anoint him, and we just prayfor ears that will hear what your spirit has to say today, father. in jesus’ name.

joe jordan: good morning everyone. as youcan see, the title of this morning’s talk is unholy communion: the spiritual natureof abduction reports. before we start into this i must give you a warning. whenever ishare this talk, i share this warning. it’s important. the following information may changeyour preconceived notions of the alien abduction experience. what is alien abduction? this is taken from wikipedia: “the terms alien abduction or the abductionphenomena describe subjectively real memories of being taken secretly and/or against one’swill by apparently non-human entities, and subjected to complex physical and psychologicalprocedures.”

what i’m going to share with you today issome of the most powerful evidence in the ufo community about what this experience isabout, and the entities behind it. we’ve shared this over the years, and we always get a lotof flack from what i’m about to share, so hang out to your seats. the way that i startwith this, is that i have to take you back to where i started. because this has beena long process of 15 years to get to this point, and i want to share with you how wegot here. because there is a sequence of events, that you’ll see how important allthis is once its all put together. a lot of people ask, “how did you even becomea ufo investigator?” i mean, there are a lot of ufo investigator researchers out there.and it’s probably a question some of you

have asked, “how do these people even getinvolved in this stuff?” for me, it started in 1992. i worked for a major boat company,in florida. i’m from the kennedy space center area, and i had some vacation time duringthe year, in 1992. and i went to visit my brother, who was in the air force, stationedup at elmendorf air force base, up in alaska. and i had a week’s time off that i couldgo up and visit with him. i took my son with me, and my mom went with me. and we went upto visit and have a good time; see the sites. but it’s a ten hour flight out of orlandoflorida, to go to alaska, that’s a long time on a plane. i needed something to read tokeep me occupied. while we were in the airport, i went to the little bookstores they havein the airport. they have magazines, books,

snacks, things like that. i browsed throughthe magazines. i didn’t see anything that would really catch my attention. i’m notmuch into sports, politics, and all that. so i went over to the books area, and i’mbrowsing through the paperbacks that they have. i came across one particular book, andit caught my eye. i picked it up and looked at the cover of it. and it looked like a sciencefiction book. i was an avid science fiction reader wheni was a teenager, when i was in high school. i actually grew up as an army brat, and ispent a lot of time overseas growing up in my younger years. we didn’t have tv or radio,and stuff like that to keep us occupied, like you guys got today. so books were a greatescapism. and mine was science fiction. i

loved science fiction. robert heinlein, frederickk. pohl, h.g. wells, you know, it was great. and as i was looking at this book that i hadpicked up, it looked like a science fiction book. but when i turned it over and lookedat the back side to read the synopsis of what it was about, i was puzzled. because hereit looked like any other science fiction book i picked up, but it was saying this was astory about an investigation that was done. and it was based with science fact, and fullof scientific research, and this was their documentation of their investigation. thatbook was “ufo crash at roswell.” i’d never heard about ufos before. i mighthave seen movies of it, but it never connected; it wasn’t something that i was concerned withat all in my life. i was hard-working at the

boat company for many years already, raisinga son. so i was busy with everyday life. ufos were the farthest thing from my mind. butwhen i read this book on that vacation trip, i was hooked. because all the things thati thought were fantasy in my younger years growing up: these people were saying was real.and how could that possibly be? so i had to know more. when i got back from the trip, i wanted toknow more about this subject of ufos and aliens: “i’ve got to have some answers to what ihad just read”. and it happened to be that about 3-4 weeks after i got back, i was watchingtv at home one night, and it was the local news. and they were doing interviews withlocal business men in the area, and new businesses

that were opening up. and they were interviewinga fellow who said, who was sharing with everybody, that he had just opened up a ufo museum oninternational drive in orlando, florida. and he got into telling about all the informationdealing with ufos over the years, and what he had in his museum. it was like a historicalwalk-through museum. sort of like what they have downtown here in roswell. and i thought“wow, this is a place i can go to find out some more.” so over the next couple months i made a numberof trips over to meet this fellow. and he and his wife together were running the place.nice little walk-through museum. had books in front where you could purchase little knick-knacks (souvenirs), books, and stuff like that dealing with ufos.

and as he saw me being local, coming backto see him a number of times, we finally started talking to each other. and he says “youseem to have a very keen interest in this. is there anything i can help you with?”and i told him about picking up that first book, and it grabbing my attention, and ihad to know more. and he says, “you know, would you like to be more involved in findingout what this is about?” and i said, “well what do you mean?” and he said, “welli belong to an organization that researches ufos, and it’s the mutual ufo network (mufon).” over the next few months, he helped me becomea member of mufon. he helped me work up my investigator status as a field investigatorfor mufon, and we became very good friends.

i learned what was involved with doing investigations.and being a local, (actually i was on the space coast, and he’s in central florida) he says,“you know, over on the space coast there’s no chapter for mufon.i know there are somemembers over there, but there’s no chapter for it. there’s nobody running the organizationfor that county… would you be interested in maybe taking charge of that, putting togethera group of investigators to cover that area?” and i thought, “wow this sounds interesting.” here i am from knowing nothing about ufos,to getting one little book, to now working up to i’m going to be in charge of doinginvestigations in my area. and we took time and talked to the state director of florida wholives up in gulf breeze, and the assistant

state director. and they told me what wasinvolved with being a state section director for my county, and i had an interview withthem. the fellow from the museum backed up for me, because he was the state section directorfor orange county there in central florida, and they put me through all the paces on whatwas involved. and i became state section director for the kennedy space center area, brevardcounty, florida in 1992. what better place to be a ufo investigator; one of the most top secretclearance areas in the country. and now, they’ve got an air space that’s totally controlled,so they say, but amazingly over the years we investigated ufos over their air space.so that gets quite interesting, so i had a good area to be involved in.

we put together monthly meetings, which wasrequired for me by mufon, as a state section director, for the public to attend in ourcounty. we used the public library; it was open to the public. we wanted to be able toshare with the public what mufon was doing, with some of the cases we were working on,and just get them up to date on ufo information. i also had to put together a team of investigators,and it wasn’t long before i had 5 good field investigators working under me. and we put the word out there through thesheriff’s department, the police department, the fire department, and the news, that ifanybody reported a ufo sighting, that we would be glad to take a report and follow up onit. you know, because they don’t really

care to do that, they don’t know how tohandle that. so we were there for them. this is what mufon does. mufon is the largest grass-roots, scientific based organization in the world today. there are over 5000 members of investigators,consultants, and we have a lot of tools at our fingertips as mufon investigators to beable to follow up on reports and do the investigations. as we held our monthly meetings though, andwe were doing sighting reports, we did a number of them over the first couple years, we startedto take a look at what was happening here with the ufo picture. and you know, doingsighting reports, we found after a couple years of it, it’s like chasing your tail.you know… how many sighting reports is it going to take until we figure out what thisis? it had been going on since the 40s and

50s. and they still don’t have an absoluteanswer to what this phenomenon is about. and looking at the people coming to our meetings,we were hearing stories from people who were saying they were abductees or contactees.and we started listening to them and they were saying that they were, they had been,in contact with these entities that are behind the ufo sightings. well, we talked about thisas investigators, and we said, we could continue to do sightings forever. they’ve been goingon forever. and we may never get to the truth with them. we need to get closer to the source. well, the contactees and abductees sayingthey had been in contact with the entities, that’s close to the source. so we decidedto move our research closer to that source and get

into abduction research, and try to find out,being closer to the source, what this phenomenon was about. the only problem with that at the time isthat mufon wasn’t set up to deal with the abduction experiencers. ok, they’re doingscientific based investigations on ufo sightings. they really didn’t have a format for workingwith the abductions, and we had to kind of separate ourselves to be able to do that.we couldn’t do it under the name of mufon, cause we had no real guidelines, except forwhat we had been taught as investigators, to do interviews and research, and how todocument stuff. so, we decided to set up a separate entityorganization called “ce4 research.” and ce4,

“close encounter of the fourth kind,” that’swhat that stands for. you’ve got the 1st kind, 2nd kind, 3rd kind, course you’veall seen the movie the 3rd kind. the fourth kind is abductions, so that’s what we titledour group. even from the beginning the information was always available to mufon, we never keptit separate, we always offered it if they wanted to see it. but like i said, they weren’treally set up at the time to be involved with that. so we started interviewing the abductees andcontactees that we had come into the meetings over the next couple years, and started documentingall the information. and as we were doing this we were also learning as much as we couldfrom other researchers who were in this field. the big names: budd hopkins, whitley strieber,john mack; they had done extensive research

already. and because the abductees and contacteesthat we were encountering seemed to have a lot of personal issues, we didn’t want todo any more damage to these people, by working with them and interviewing them, so we neededto learn as much about them as we could. so we consumed all of the research we couldget our hands on from the researchers that were well known; that had been working onthis for some years. we wanted to be prepared as we went into this, so that we wouldn’tcause any more harm to these people than what they had gone through already. i want to giveyou a little idea of what the abduction experience is about. and one of the best examples of this was writtenby the late dr. karla turner, who was actually

an experiencer herself. and she put togethera really good piece to take you through and show you exactly what these experiencers gothrough. “if abduction reports can be believed, andthere is not reason to doubt the honesty of the reporters, the abduction phenomenon includesthe following details: aliens can alter our perception of our surroundings. aliens can control what we think we see. they can appear to us in any number of guisesand shapes. aliens can take us, our consciousness, outof our physical bodies, disable our control of our bodies, install one of their own entities,and use our bodies as vehicles for their own

activities before returning our consciousnessto our bodies. aliens can be present with us in an invisiblestate, and can make themselves only partially visible. abductees receive marks on their bodies, otherthan the well-known scoop and straight line scars. these other marks include single punctures,multiple punctures, large bruises, 3 and 4 fingered claw marks, and triangles of everypossible sort. female abductees often suffer gynecologicalproblems after their alien encounters, and sometimes these problems lead to cysts, tumors,cancer of the breasts and uterus, and to hysterectomies. aliens take body fluids from our necks, spines,blood veins, joints such as knees and wrists, and other places. they also inject unknownfluids into various parts of our bodies. a

surprising number of abductees suffer fromserious illnesses they didn’t have before their encounters. they have led to surgery,debilitation, and even death from causes the doctors can’t identify. some abductees experience a degeneration oftheir mental, social, and spiritual well-being. excessive behavior frequently erupts, suchas drug abuse, alcoholism, overeating, and promiscuity. strange obsessions develop and cause the disruptionof normal life and the destruction of personal relationships. aliens show a great interest in adult sexuality,child sexuality, and in inflicting physical

pain on abductees. abductees recall being instructed and trainedby aliens. this training may be in the form of verbal or telepathic lessons, slide shows,or actual hands-on instruction in the operation of alien technology. abductees report being taken to facilitiesin which they encounter not only aliens but also normal-looking humans, sometimes in militaryuniforms, working with the alien captors. abductees often encounter more than one sortof alien during an experience, not just the grays. every possible combination of gray,reptoid, insectoid, blond, and widow’s peak, have been seen during single abductions, aboardthe same craft or in the same facility. abductees

report being taken to underground facilitieswhere they see grotesque hybrid creatures, nurseries of hybrid humanoid fetuses, andvats of colored liquid filled with parts of human bodies. abductees report seeing otherhumans in these facilities being drained of blood, being mutilated, flayed, and dismembered,and stacked, like lifeless cords of wood. some abductees have been threatened that they,too, will end up in this condition if they don’t co-operate with their alien captors. aliens come into homes and temporarily removeyoung children, leaving their distraught parents paralyzed and helpless. in cases where a parenthas been able to protest, the aliens insist that “the children belong to us.”

aliens have forced their abductees to havesexual intercourse with aliens and even with other abductees while groups of aliens observethese performances. in such encounters, the aliens have sometimesdisguised themselves in order to gain the cooperation of the abductees, appearing insuch forms as jesus, the pope, certain celebrities, and even the dead spouses of the abductees. aliens perform extremely painful experimentsor procedures on abductees, saying that these acts are necessary but give no explanationwhy. painful genital and anal probes are performed,on children as well as adults. aliens make predictions of an imminent periodof global chaos and destruction. they say

that a certain number of humans will be “rescued”from the planet in order to continue the species, either on another planet or back on earthafter the destruction is over. many abductees report they don’t believetheir alien captors, and foresee instead a much more sinister use of the “rescued”humans. in every instance from this list, there aremultiple reports from unrelated cases, confirming that such bizarre details are not the productof a single deranged mind. these details are convincing evidence that, contrary to theclaims of many ufo researchers, the abduction experience isn’t limited to uniform patternof events. the phenomenon simply can’t be explained in terms of cross- breeding experimentsor scientific research into the human physiology.

before we allow ourselves to believe in thebenevolence of the alien interaction, we should ask, do enlightened beings need to use thecover of night to perform good deeds? do they need to paralyze us and render us helplessto resist? do angels need to steal our fetuses? do they need to manipulate our children’sgenitals and probe our rectums? are fear, pain, and deception consistent withhigh spiritual motives?” and again, that was the late dr. karla turner.another thing that these people get is in their messages, through the communicationfrom these entities, through the experience. there are a number of these that i’ve touchedon; there will be other speakers coming up

talking about the alien message. but thisis a few of them: they say they are the ones who have createdus by using dna. they will guide us in our next evolutionarystep. jesus, moses, buddha, mohammed, and other religious leaders were really them. that the earth is actually a living organism. they teach that the earth will be destroyedif they cannot change mankind. they teach that they are more advanced bothtechnologically and spiritually. they teach that they are corporeal beingsand that they reside in other star systems. they teach that they are our benefactors.

i have a special video that i’d like toshare with you. it’s about a family that has gone through this experience. the experiencesof examples i’ve just read to you here from karla turner, i want you to see the actualpeople themselves and how it’s affected them and their family. it’s a short video.it’s about 8 minutes, and i’m going to let it play, and then we’ll come back andmove on. (video plays) joyce: ordinary everyday people that thishas happened to, and it can happen to anybody. i didn’t want to believe that it had happenedto me, but it did. narrator: joyce ahrens and her family believethat what happened to them was not an isolated

incident. one highly controversial study conductedby the roper poll suggests that hundreds of thousands, even millions, of americans havememories that indicate that they may have been kidnapped by aliens. abduction researchersbelieve that these abductions happen generation after generation, as this family from westplains missouri can attest. their story starts one evening in the fall of 1976, in the presumedsafety of their home. dan: what i remember is lying there tryingto relax, i opened my eyes, i see a red light glowing across the ceiling, which it almostlooked like the aurora borealis… narrator: dan and joyce ahrens said the roomwas dark except for the unusual light, which they describe as about 4-5 feet in diameter.they say it hovered over the baby’s crib,

at the foot of their bed where their 1 yearold daughter heather slept. dan said when he tried to get up, he found himself immobilized. dan: that was the most frightening feelingi guess i’ve ever had my whole life, was not being able to move. joyce: i was screaming for him to help mebecause i couldn’t move. and i didn’t know that he was paralyzed too. and we bothsat up in the bed at the same time. and i said, “what the hell was that?” narrator: the incident was over in what seemedlike an instant. the baby was standing up in her crib looking dazed but unharmed. danand joyce thought they had just shared a scary

dream. that is until 1992, 16 years later.dan, a computer technician, was working at his keyboard, when suddenly he was seizedby panic. dan: i immediately thought i was having aheart attack, cause i started sweating real bad, my ears were ringing, it was a real tightfeeling in my head. narrator: dan was rushed to the emergencyroom, where doctors ran tests and ordered x-rays. when the results were in, they concludedthat dan had suffered an anxiety attack, and sent him home. but the symptoms persisted. joyce: to see him like that was devastating.he couldn’t leave the house. he was so scared. narrator: after 6 weeks of constant fear,dan sat down in front of the tv, trying to

relax. he turned on a movie that happenedto be about alien abductions. dan experienced a sudden revelation. dan: there was one part in that movie thatthis little creature, whatever, was kind of peeking out from around the door, and it wasin the dark and the shadows, and everything. and i immediately, my heart started racing,and i just kind of completely went out of it again. narrator: dan wondered, was his anxiety somehowrelated to the subject of the movie? he later chanced upon another television show aboutalien abductions, and watched an interview with therapist john carpenter, the nationaldirector of abduction research for the mutual

ufo network. dan immediately contacted carpenterfor help. john: he suffered from a panic disorder atthat point in time, and he had flashbacks, and nightmarish images of these beings, butdidn’t understand what was going on, and needed some relief. narrator: dan agreed to an on-camera hypnosissession with carpenter, in which he revisited that memorable night in 1976, the night hesaw the red light overt the baby’s crib. this time, under hypnosis, he remembers more.he recalls cowering in the corner of his bed, bed, as he watched aliens beings take his daughter, heather from her crib. dan: he went to the crib...

john: he went to the crib? dan: he picked her up. john: uh-huh. dan: i can’t move. john: you can’t move? john: you don’t have any control of what’s happening? dan: no. (distressed tones) john: what do you see happening now? dan: they took her! (distressed tones)

john: they took her? narrator: under separate hypnosis, dan’swife joyce recalled the same sequence of events, they both say little beings marched them outside,and together the family was floated onto a spaceship. joyce: i never wanted it to happen to my children.i didn’t realize until later that it had. when they took her, i couldn’t do anything.(distressed tones) narrator: heather, now 22 and married, remembersa series of abductions beginning in childhood, when she was forced to play telepathic gameswith the aliens. john: how do you play the game?

heather: if i pick up that one, he’ll letme go. john: hmmm… what are you feeling? heather: i want to go home. john: what does he tell you about that? heather: that if i pick it up, he’ll letme go. narrator: the ahrens family believes thatalien kidnappers have not only intruded in the lives of their children, but are now visitingone of their grandchildren. joyce: he calls them his little buddies; thatcome in his room and play. he said he wanted to watch the ship leave. i’m not going totell him that it’s not real, because it

is real. narrator: skeptics would say thatdan, joyce, and heather could have constructed their stories together before hypnosis. john: but then they’d have to know how toanswer the trick questions, and the leading suggestions, which i provide. plus there aremany details that they wouldn’t know about, that we’d be looking for, as markers fortruthfulness and reliability with other abduction data. narrator: researchers also believe abducteesare sincere because of another consistently reported feature of abduction accounts: theinsertion of alien implants. joyce: i turned my head to the right, andthis taller being that over, and he kept telling

me that it would be okay, that they wouldn’thurt me. and then they took this very long needle and they put it up my right nostril.and i closed my eyes, and i heard it crunch. and then i became very calm. narrator: objects said to be these implantshave been recovered. mit’s david pritchard has examined the composition of one of thesereported implants in a laboratory, and contends there is absolutely no physical proof of alienactivity. david: if we don’t find physical evidence,and we haven’t, then we have to lump this in the category of fairies, elves, near deathexperiences people report, or we are going to be back to the days of the medicine menrunning our society.

narrator: with the help of hypnosis, dan’sanxiety subsided and he returned to work, but what once seemed out of this world, hasnow become a part of his life. joyce: if this is some sort of mental thingthat’s happening to people, then why aren’t they out, why aren’t the scientists or doctorsor whatever, trying to find a cure? joe jordan: quite an impressive video there,huh? this video, some of you might have seen it. it’s aired over the years, it’s froma&e. actually i’ve seen it every single year for about the past 6-7 years, since istarted looking at some of these videos. you see a lot of the similarities, from what dr.karla turner talked about, right there on that video with this family, with what theyhad gone through. you see that this is not

a very enjoyable experience for them. yousee a lot of things, key things going on here. you see that it also is generational; thereare a lot of issues just in that one little 8 minute piece. you can see it covers a lotof aspects of what the abduction experiencers go through. as we were working with the abduction research,most of them were coming into our monthly meetings. we had 4 or 5 there that were localthat we were working with, that we were able to work with. but something unusual was alsohappening in these monthly meetings. remember, they’re mufon meetings that we’d set up,open to the public. and one of the things mufon had warned me about from the beginningis when you open up a meeting to the public

that’s on ufos, is that you’re going toget all sort sorts of people at these meetings, and it might not all be scientific based.i had no idea what they were talking about, until i opened the meetings up. i had peoplecoming in there with all sorts of things to talk about and share, which we opened it upto, to explore. i mean they were just things i had absolutely never heard of; a lot ofit was things dealing with metaphysics. and i had no idea what metaphysics was about. and we opened up to look at what these peoplewere talking about. a lot of it was what you d call metaphysics and new age teachings.we had to look at them as researchers, because they’re still part of that ufo puzzle, insome way. if you’re going to look for the

answer to this ufo picture, and what is thepicture, then you have got to bring all those pieces of the puzzle to the table to get thefinal picture. you can’t leave pieces out. now mufon might not have been prepared todeal with those pieces, but it doesn’t mean they should be excluded. so as an objectiveresearcher, and an open-minded researcher at the time, i said let’s look at all ofit. so we started looking at these ideas that the people that were coming to the meetingshad dealing with the new age and metaphysics; there seemed to be a spiritual connectionthere to the ufo phenomenon. and if you’re only looking at it from a scientific pointof view, you don’t catch that; you have to step back and look at it a lot bigger.and that’s what we were doing while we were

working with the abduction experiencers. as a matter of fact, a lot of the abductionexperiencers, on their quest looking for answers through their life, were brought into thisstudy of new age and metaphysics teachings. we kept seeing that over and over and over.it didn’t seem like the christian church was set up at the time to give them any helpor answers, so they would go elsewhere looking for these answers. and they were finding thatconnection between the new age, and the metaphysics, and the ufo realm. as we were exploring it,i was attracted to it. when i first came into the whole thing with ufos and becoming a mufonmember, i had no spiritual background at all. i was pretty much what you’d call an agnostic,which i felt was good, because it kept me

with no base to be able to distort my views.so my whole beginning into all of this, with the work with mufon and sighting investigationsi was absolutely a clean slate; no belief system that was effecting it, i could lookat this scientifically. as i opened up to looking at the new age andmetaphysical side of it, and as i became attracted to that, and i saw that there was somethingthere, it was like i had this hole and they had this thing that could fill that hole.you ever had that hole? you know, that something’s missing in your life? well here, they hadthis something that they were offering, and it was a form of spirituality, and it wasconnected to what i was studying. so over the next couple of years, i went on that questof enlightenment that these people go through,

and continue on, in their life. i studiedeverything i could get my hands on dealing with metaphysics and the new age beliefs.to the point, to where i was a practitioner; where i was sharing with people and tryingto bring them in. and it was interesting because there were a lot of poor christians out therethat i was converting to the new age. why was i able to do that? because they reallydidn’t know what they believed, and it really didn’t take too much to get them questioningwhat they thought they believed in. this went on for about 4 years, we were still workingwith the abductions, and my study into the metaphysics. and in 1996 i had a female investigator workingwith me, because as you see, a lot of the

abductions are with females. and it’s hardto talk one-on-one with the females, with a man, because some of it gets very personal.so i was very lucky to have at the time a girlfriend that would come on board and workwith me, and actually work with the female abduction experiencers. and then we’d compilenotes, and we’d be able to work like that. in 1996, fall of ‘96, we had a lot of thingsgoing on that were really tying up our time and keeping us busy. but there were a couplecases that we were working on that had a very, very dark effect on us, dealing with these2 cases. we couldn’t put our finger on it, but something wasn’t right. when we weredealing with the experiencers and their case, there was a serious oppression then, thatit was just like “oh man what is this!?”

you know, and “what’s affecting us here?” well she, my girlfriend at the time, was achristian, and she didn’t quite put all this together yet, but she was helping usin the abduction area. and she pulled me aside one day, and she says, “you know, somethingis wrong here.” she says, “these cases you’re working on right now, there’s somethingvery dark about them. there’s something that seems like there’s almost an evil presenceinvolved.” and of course, me and my new age thinking, said, “you know, evil’sjust a perception you have of this, there’s really no evil, it’s all relative”. shesays, “no, no, no, there’s really something wrong here. i know you feel it”. she says,“you know, when you’re working in this

area, i think you really need to have somecovering, some type of protection on you as you go into this. i think there are some darkforces here that you need to be protected from.“ of course, i reach in my pocket andpull out my trusty crystals. and i said, “i got all the power i need right here.” andshe says, “no, no, no, no, that’s not what i’m talking about, that’s not goingto help you, it isn’t helping you right now”. and i said, “well what are you gettingat?” and she says, “i know of a help that can help you and can protect you.” and isaid, “yeah? what do you got?” you know, because i was always looking for somethingnew, that’s the whole thing about, on your search for enlightenment, you’re alwayslooking for that next thing to bring you closer

to it. you never really get there, it’sjust that carrot dangling out there, and i was all ready for this one. and she breaksout a bible and sets it on the table, and says, “it’s in here.” and i said, “ohno, that’s got nothing to do with what i do.” she says, “i think it does. i thinkyou need to take a look at it. and i’m like, “no, no, no, no. we don’t need to go there.”and she says, “wait a minute… you said you’re the most open-minded objective investigatorthere is; you tell people that.” i said, “i am.” she says, “then you’ll takea look at this?” i said…i…guess what? i’d just been had. (laughter) so, we sat down, and i said, “show me whatyou got.”(you don’t want to piss off the

girlfriend.) and i gave her, her time. andsomething miraculously happened for the time. i grew up in the church, left it as a teenager,got disgruntled because of the world, but i knew, i’d heard the word before, i’dheard god’s word growing up, just put it away for 30 years. and she shared with methe gospel message out of the bible. and it’s like i had never heard it before. it’s likeblinders were taken off my eyes, and earplugs were pulled out of my ears. all of a suddenit made absolute perfect sense! and she showed me that there was a protection in there thati didn’t have, that was over everything that there is. and i said, “you know what?i want that.” so in 1996 in november, i became a christian. i gave my life to jesuschrist.

i didn’t know what i was… i mean i’dbeen an agnostic, i’d been new age… as an investigator, i’m asking, “what’sa christian? what am i now? help me study this so i can find out what i am, what i have”. so in december, that next month, i had 2 weeksoff from work. we shut down the plant in the middle of december for 2 weeks; one week inthe summer. and one of my other investigators, who was a christian also, one of my foundersof ce4, my partner wes clark at the time, he says, “you know, i got a friend whosegot this really powerful video bible study course.” he says, “i think we can gethim to sit down with us and we can view it, it will probably take the whole 2 weeks doinga video a night.” so in december we set

it up to go to this fellow’s house, playthese videos. and one night, by one night, by one night, we were going through it andlearning bible study. this was an absolutely intense course. i mean, i was getting moreinformation in those 2 weeks than i could get in 50 years sitting in sunday school.so this was what i needed as an investigator; i wanted to know now, and i wanted to knowas much as possible. so it was a great course that we went through. one night we were sitting there in this fellow’shouse, listening to this guy doing the talk on the video, and something happened. we’reall comfortable and then he starts bringing up the topic that he’s going to say forthat night, and it happened to be something

called spiritual warfare. and i went “whoa (stop)!what is spiritual warfare? that sounds cool. that’s a really neat thing to talk about,let’s hear more about it.”; never heard of that term before. well as he gets intoit, he brings up this verse, out of ephesians. “for we wrestle not, (not, not, hear thatword?) …against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against therulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places”. and there’s another translation, that’sfrom the king james version, there’s another translation at the bottom, “for our struggle is not against human opponents,but against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers

in the darkness around us, and evil spiritualforces in the heavenly realm”. ok? as soon as i heard this man say this scripture,i had a vision. sitting there on the couch in this fellow’s house, watching a video,as soon as i heard this, i had a vision, right in front of my face. you know, i’d heardabout visions, and people getting things like that, when i was in the new age. i talkedto many people that had had vision experiences, prophetic experiences, never had one myself,always wanted to, but wasn’t until i became a christian that i had one. and it was duringthis reading of this scripture. what did i see? i saw the alien gray, right in front of myface, and in an instant, it morphed to the

most horrific thing i had ever seen. in thatmoment i knew that what we were dealing with was not what it appeared to be. i said, “stop that video. you guys, i’vejust seen something i’ve got to share with you”. and when i shared that with them,i said, “you know, i don’t want to do this ufo stuff anymore. this is not wherewe need to be dealing with.” i said, “i’m going to stop this.” and my partner weswas there with me. and he says, “you know what, i agree with you, as a christian, i’vebeen for many years, i don’t know how i missed this.” so we agreed to put everythingaside, and move on becoming christians, and doing bible study.

about a month went by, and i get this like,“excuse me? i need your attention here.” i didn’t know where this was coming from.and being a new christian, i didn’t know how god talked to you. but he was trying toget my attention. and what i was getting was, “you’re not done yet.” and i said, “ohyes i am. i see what this is. i don’t want any more part of it.” he says, “you’renot done yet.” i said, “alright? what do you want me to do here?” he says, “iwant you to take this back out, what you’ve learned, back out to where you came from.”and i said, “if this is god, i can’t do that.” i said, “i can’t take this wordof god back to the new age metaphysical realm, the nonbelievers, because they don’t believethe word of god. you’ve got to give me something

better than that.” well, nobody told meyou don’t talk to god like that. so i thought, that will hold him off. a couple weeks wentby, and i get “excuse me?” i’m going “ok…?” “you already got what you need.”and i thought, “i already have what i need?” so i told my partner wes what i was gettinghere, and he said, “well let’s go back and look at what we have”. we came acrossa particular video we had done 6 months before; before we came to the truth. we had videoedthis person in his home, we had sat there right in front of him, listening to him, watchedhim: never heard a word he said. the video caught it though. that’s interesting. wentback and played this particular video, and this is what we found.

what follows is the case of bill d’s experiencethat took place in christmas, fl in 1976: his abduction started out typically late atnight in bed. earlier in the evening he saw some anomalous lights through the living roomwindow over a forest north of his house. he assumed it was a police helicopter searchingfor drug runners or something. whatever it was, it agitated his dogs for several hoursthereafter. he eventually went to bed. he was lying in bed, kept wide awake by the barkingdogs, when paralysis set in. he was unable to cry out. he could see nothing but a whitishgray, like a mist or a fog, although he sensed something or someone was in his room. hiswife didn’t awaken. the next thing he knew, he was being levitated above his bed. he thenhad the sensation he was being suspended by

what felt like a pole inserted into his rectum.by this time he was alive with terror but couldn’t scream. here’s where the storybecomes very interesting. the following is an excerpt taken directlyfrom a transcript of mr. d’s interview: “i thought i was having a satanic experience.that the devil had gotten a hold of me and had shoved a pole up my rectum, and was holdingme up in the air. so helpless, i couldn’t do anything, i said “jesus, jesus help me!”or “jesus, jesus, jesus!” when i did, there was a feeling or a sound or something,that either that i had thought or the words that i had tried to say, or whatever, hadhurt whatever was holding me up in the air on this pole. and i felt like it was withdrawn,and i fell. i hit the bed, because it was

like i was thrown back in the bed. i reallycan’t tell, but when i did, my wife woke up and asked why i was jumping on the bed.” typical type of experience; i hear this manytimes, same scenarios. in all the research we had done, we had never heard of a caseof anybody stopping an experience. all the researchers, the top researchers, were sayingthis could not be done. you couldn’t stop an abduction experience. they had no recordof it. so here i am with a case where a guy says he called out in the name of jesus andstopped an experience! was this one case unusual? but i knew i had something powerful. whengod showed me to go back and look at this video, i knew this was something unique. andif i could confirm that it wasn’t just unique

in that one case, then this could be absolutelyhuge in the ufo community. i contacted these top researchers in the country.i said, “guys, i got a case here: i don’t know what to make of it”. i shared withthem the case. each time i did, they asked, “can we go off the record?” i said, “sure”.i can’t tell you their names, but i can tell you what they said. each one of themsaid, “yes sir, we’ve come across cases like this ourselves, where they’ve been ableto stop it using prayer or jesus name.” i said, “excuse me? i said why have we neverseen this documented? you’re telling us otherwise, that it can’t be done, that itcan’t be stopped.” the first answer they usually gave us, “we didn’t know whatto make of it.” i would have been fine with

that. the second answer is what puzzled meand got me kind of angry; because it was that one that i want you to hear for sure. theysaid, “we couldn’t go there, because it might affect our credibility in the realm”.do i hear a cover-up? did i mention government? no i didn’t. what i’m telling you is thereis a cover-up of about this information, and has been, by the top researchers that youpeople rely on to hear the truth from. i said to them, “you know guys, i got nothing tolose, i work for a living, i don’t write books, i don’t do all this stuff that youdo. i just want to document this as a researcher.” so i went after those cases, because i nowknew they were there. over the next 10 years i have now worked with over 400 cases of peoplethat have been able to stop the abduction

experience in the name and authority of jesuschrist. this is documented evidence. okay? documented evidence! i questioned, i had to show biblically ifthis was relating to the bible, where the authority comes from, back to ephesians, atthe end of ephesians in that chapter, talking about spiritual warfare. after putting onthe whole armor of god, which is defense protection, these people were showing that there was anoffensive move, an offensive move, you can be in defense with protection, but to defeatthe enemy, these entities, you have to do something offensive. ephesians 6:19 “andfor me that utterance may be given unto me, that i may open my mouth boldly”, that’swhat these people have done in the presence

of these entities. “to make known the mysteryof the gospel.” what’s that mystery? (this is where theauthority comes, that they’re able to stop these entities.) because it’s christ inyou. that power was passed down from god to the son, father to the son, over everythingabove the earth, on the earth, below the earth, when you become a christian, give yourselfto jesus christ, as your lord and saviour, the indwelling of the holy spirit passes thatauthority on to you. talk about high technology, from other planets,from who knows where, i don’t think this is what we’re dealing with, and all thissupposed high technology that they seem to have. guess what? it takes only one name toput them in their place. we are dealing with

a huge, probably the most important deception,on humanity. these are entities masquerading as high technological aliens. but they canbe defeated by one name. i have case, upon case, upon case, upon case, that can provethat! different causes for the experience, theyare still questioning this; researchers don’t know where this comes from. where does theexperience come from? we found answers to this, working with these testimonies. first one: you ask for it. think people askfor this? excuse me, we stand at the tables at these conventions and share our informationwith people, i’ve had people come right up to me and say, “i’d sure like to experiencethat!” be careful what you ask for!

(second) some people unknowingly open a doorto the experience by being involved with new age or occult activities. when you engagein the unknown things outside of god, the creator and his word, you make yourself vulnerableto these entities. we have found this reason to be most often the root cause. (third) and then there are also people thatfall into the generational cycle. you saw the generational cycle working right therewith joyce and her family. this can continue through generations. these are the thingswe found. my website: ce4research.com. i’ve got over75 of the testimonies up on there as evidence for you, free to go see and read what thesepeople have been through, read that they have

been set free by the name and authority ofjesus christ from this experience. you seeing a spiritual connection here? absolutely. ieven have audio testimonies that we’re posting up there now. you can hear them do it in theirown voice, not just a written testimony. i’ve had researchers say, “ah, you printedthat up and stuck it up there.” no. they’re furious about having this information outthere. the rest of the ufo community: they’re absolutely furious. you saw my little posterout there on the table? “the most hated man in ufology” last year i was the directorfor the city for the ufo conference 2008 for roswell. i invited some of the top researchersin the country, in the world actually, to come here and talk and give their information.but, i also got to talk on the last day. and

when i shared this information, they wereabsolutely furious. and they have been furious ever since. there are blogs upon blogs goingout there. i am now the most hated man in ufology, okay, because i dared share somethingthat they couldn’t. those people that i talked to before… those researchers? they’venever come against me. the ones that i didn’t talk to? oh boy. you should hear the thingsthey say. moving on…this is an example of how we takepeople through and help them. this is our counseling side of it: the “8 r’s.”this will be on the video for you guys to see. i’m not going to take too much timeand go through them. we take them through. we help them recognize what they’re doing.we help them take responsibility for what

they’re now recognizing, what they’vebeen involved with, repenting to god for being involved with it, renouncing it, getting ridof everything, making it your enemy, removing it. resisting it if it tries to come back,cause your going to piss these entities off, and they’re going to try to harass you fora while, which does happen. rejoice: give god thanks for setting you free. and the completionof helping someone become free of all of this is restore: help someone else get free. and that’s where the testimonies come in.post these testimonies: you’re helping somebody else. i’m getting emails, after emails,after emails, of new ones coming in all the time. how many cases does it take for theworld to see that what i’m sharing with

you today is real? how many cases? they’regoing to continue to come in. i’m going to continue to share this. we’ve been looking for an et message foryears and years and years. guess what? the world seems to have missed the one most importantet message we’ve had for 2000 years. this enemy that we’re dealing with today, masqueradingas angels, does not want you to have this message. they’re doing everything they canto deceive us from having this message “for god so loved the world that he gave his onlybegotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlastinglife.” - john 3:16 this is the extraterrestrial message that’sbeen missed. this is the one they don’t

want you to see. they’re replacing it withtheir own, and it’s a lie. you’ve got questions? go straight to the source. don’ttalk to these entities, this scripture right here says, if you got questions that you don’tknow the answers to, you’ve got a direct connection to the creator of the universe.“call unto me,” god himself. “i will answer thee and show thee great and mightythings which thou knowest not (jeremiah 33:3).” but yet there are people that are channelers thatare dealing with entities that have no name, or they can’t even verify who they are.they open themselves up. you don’t open the door to people you don’t know who theyare! you question them first! it’s not happening in that realm, the new age metaphysical realm.you have a direct connection to god himself.

ok? you know what; i can sit up here and talkto you guys and say, “trust me. what i’m telling you is the truth.” do any of youreally know me? nope. so what i’m going to say, “do not trust me. do not take myword for this. cause you can’t trust no man. do not trust me. i want you to trustthe evidence”. ok? the real evidence. where’s the evidence? on that website: the testimoniesthat are there. can i do you one better? would you like tosee the evidence, right now? joyce ahrens….. heard that name before? i had an opportunityto meet this lady a few years back. she had left her family; this is joyce from the video.she left her family; she could no longer be

part of all of that. but she was still searchingfor answers. she ended up in florida, in my neighborhood. imagine that! she interruptsmy favorite tv show, happened to be the last episode of x-files, i was pissed. (laughter)calls me on the phone, i’m going “i got to take this.” luckily i had the recorderon, watched it later. and she wants to tell me, she saw my name in the paper that day,because they had an article that they did, because i was mufon, and it was about thelast show of x-files. so she saw my name, called me on the phone, says “i want totalk to you, i’m an abduction experiencer”, blah, blah, blah. she was all excited aboutbeing an experiencer. well, after about 45 minutes of talking toher, i was catching in her voice, you know,

she isn’t real happy. so, i set up to meetwith her. i said i’d like to talk some more with you, so we set up an appointment to meetat this little restaurant. and we met, and i started sharing with her what i had. andyou know what? she freaked. she said, “i got to go!” and away she went, out the door.i thought, well, that’s that. i won’t see joyce again. but you know what? i didsee joyce again. joe: you want to talk? joyce: i’ll try. you have to forgive me,i’m a little nervous in front of crowds. he’s right, i didn’t trust him. becausei was a devout atheist. so i didn’t believe in god, didn’t want to have any part ofthat, i did tell joe that i would read the

testimonies that he gave me. i do try to keepmy word whenever i give my word; i do try and keep that. so i took the testimonies andi left, and on my way home, i stopped at a red light. and i got my first vision. andin my vision that i was seeing, was a beautiful picture of the world, looking from outsideit. and then around it were a couple of hands, very long, long claws, nails, and a face thatstarted to appear from behind it that was absolutely hideous. and i knew right then,right then, that what he told me was true. i still didn’t want to believe that, buti knew. and i knew the powers that i’d been dealing with, and i knew i was in deep trouble… joe: want me to go from there? …about aweek later joyce calls me and says, “i want

what you have”. i had the opportunity ofleading joyce to jesus christ in my living room. i got her located with my church andmy fellowship. we brought her up in the word. she’s become a very powerful warrior. yearsand years this video has been running. every year it runs, sometimes a couple times a year,but you know what? they don’t show the end of the story! you’re looking at the endof the story! this lady has been healed! no more experiences! she’s back with her family,working with them! (applause) this is the evidence right here. last yearwhen i did this conference down here at the pearson, i brought the living evidence upon that stage. not one researcher would talk

to these people, because they knew if theydid they’d have to deal with it. instead they come after, and attack us, as being christians.i haven’t said anything about preaching christianity. i’m here to show you evidencethat i have come across, and you need to look at the evidence. if it leads you to dealingwith christianity, so be it. but that’s not what i’m here for. i’m here to showyou the most powerful evidence in the ufo realm, for the entities we are working with.and it’s an unwanted piece of that puzzle; absolutely unwanted. you know what? i broughtyou one piece of the evidence. how about some more? guy malone! guy is living testimony. he puthis book on the internet where you can read

it, called “come sail away”, living testimonyto the name and authority of jesus christ over these alien entities. nicole! guy’s wife. she has dealt with theseentities. she has overcome them through the name and authority of jesus christ. jackie! jackie has dealt with these entities.she can also testify to the name and authority above them. how much more evidence do youneed? i’ve got some more. janet? are you out there? come on up. janetis from west virginian. guy and nicole are from roswell, joyce is from missouri, andjackie is from here in roswell. thank you. they can testify to the name and authorityof jesus christ over these entities affecting

their life. kevin, are you out there? come on up! kevinis from utah. he can testify to the name and authority of jesus christ over these entities. ken, are you out there? come on up! ken isfrom vancouver washington. ken can testify to the name and authority of jesus christ. this isn’t fuzzy pictures, this isn’tfuzzy videos: this is real evidence that you can question, you can touch. jackie: well…! (laughter)

joe: and i challenge you to do that. becauseevery time i’ve done this talk, and brought the living testimonies up here, nobody questionsthem. they’re afraid to: because if you do it’s going to change your life. that’swhy i put that warning up there in the beginning. this is the evidence. it’s here. how muchdoes it take for you to understand what this is? ce4 website: for those of you who want togo and see more. it’s called “the unwanted piece of the puzzle”, and it will take youthrough steps to see all of that. i also post the warning when you come to my site. our counseling group: “paranormal and alienabduction problem solvers international”. we were called “aaccoa”. we changed thename because we used to be “alien abduction

counseling centers of america”, but nowwe’re bringing counselors on from around the world. so we had to change the name alittle bit to expand. but we’re looking for counselors to help. over 5 million peopleare estimated to have gone through this experience in this country alone. i can’t help themall. i need help. we need counselors to help these people. ok? this is a mission field,with millions that need to be helped. we need you in the church to come on and recognizethese people are hurting and give them a place of comfort and covering so that they can behelped through this experience. v2: you might have seen these stickers around.v2 is out of washington state, they’ve been around longer than we have in this ministry.that sticker: they gave us the opportunity

to use that sticker for alien resistance,and we’ve used it for years. it’s part of helping get the word out. ok? i’ve got a book in the work with dave ruffino,who i shared the talk with last year “unholy communion, the unwanted piece of the puzzle”,down at the pearson here in roswell. he’s a partner that’s working with me on thebook; the book is soon to come out. this picture here: is taken as off the noalien symbol, but it also tells you these are the entities from the same garden, thesame lie from the beginning, they are still telling that same old lie, they just are ina different guise. you know, i hope you’ve seen something thatwill make you really question what’s going

on here. you know, there are 2 sides to acoin. you’ve been seeing one side for years. guess what? you’ve just had the opportunityto see what’s on the back side of that coin. now you can make an honest decision on whatthis phenomenon is about. you can’t if you only see one side. you just had the opportunityto see both sides. and i hope now you’ll understand more about what this is about:the evidence. the most powerful evidence in the ufo community is right here in front ofyou. question these people. let them prove to you that this is real. in closing, i’d like to say… joyce hasgot one more thing to say. joyce: it’s really hard for me to watchthat video. but i’m very glad it plays.

because i had a woman call me a couple yearsago, because she saw that video. she looked my name up, and called me, and i have talkedwith her. she is one of god’s warriors now! it’s awesome! so as long as that plays,i know, i know that it’s actually going to help someone, even though i can’t standto watch it myself, i know that it has the power, he’s doing it, he’ll bring them,i know it, so i guess in a way i’m really glad that’s still playing. joe: before i close with the final words,if you are out there right now dealing with this experience, and you’re still searchingfor the answer, i hope you have that answer now. at least you’ve been able to make adecision, an honest decision, by seeing both

sides. we are offering that opportunity rightnow, for you to be set free. we have some of the most powerful counselors in this fieldright here today. do not leave this city, do not leave this building, without beingset free from this experience. you walk away from here: you’re still in the power ofthe enemy. you can be set free right now. don’t walk away from here in bondage bythese entities; you have what it takes to be set free right now. and we offer you that.please see us when we’re done with this talk. we have counselors that, we can talkto you. this could be the most memorable souvenir you could ever take away from roswell, tobe finally set free from the hold of these entities. in final closing,

baruch ata adonia, elohenu melech ha’olam blessed are you lord god, king and ruler ofthe universe. and i thank you all. (roaring applause) the first christian symposium on aliens: “to present biblical evidence that the commonly referred to as “aliens” by popular culture are indeed spiritual in nature - opposed to genuinely extra-terrestrial - and is best described as the activity of “fallen angels” intent on deceiving mankind away from a knowledge of the true god and gospel of his son, our lord and savior jesus christ. to assemble many of most noted christian authors and researchers in the field of “alien” research, so that

others may benefit from their consensus view and combined decades of research and ministry, and thus equip the body of christ to not be deceived by these “...seducing spirits and doctrines of devils” (1 timothy 4:1) and perhaps most importantly, to effectively minister to those currently bound and tormented by their influence. with thanks to all presenters who traveled to roswell at their own expense to minister these truths to the body of christ. squared productions videography: dan and stephanie jordan sponsored by http://alienresistance.com/ volunteers and godsends: thank you!!! joe jordan, dan jordan, stephanie jordan, mike slack jackie slack, keith call, joyce ahrens,

bernie degruchy, brian degruchy, rita ward, frances bates, carla bates, dan misner, janet collins, john algermissen, ken bertin, lawrence sanchez, margie sanchez, ken scott, elaine mayfield, renee roach and suzy wood. the folks at new destiny church. all of the conference pre-registrants and early supporters the city of roswell and roswell ufo festival. end